Andy Kirk: The State of Kids Ministry
In this episode, we sit down with Andy, Global Kids Ministry Ambassador for OneHope — the organization behind the Bible App for Kids and the Kids Bible Experience on YouVersion.
Andy unpacks what OneHope's latest research on Gen Z and Gen Alpha is revealing — including the alarming gap between how many young people identify as Christian versus how many actually engage their faith.
He also dives into why parents are the missing piece in faith formation, why less than 10% of churches are resourcing them, and what it looks like practically to bridge that gap on a Sunday.
Quick Links:
Simple Kids Ministry community
Transcript:
KIDMIN U Team (01:06)
Well, Andy, welcome to the podcast.
Andy (01:09)
Hey thanks for having me man, it's so good to finally connect.
KIDMIN U Team (01:13)
Yeah, same. Listen, I know a lot of people will recognize your name. It's a familiar name, Andy, Andy in the kids ministry space. But for those who haven't, would you give us just a little intro of who you are and what you're up to these days?
Andy (01:28)
Yeah, right now I serve with One Hope, which is a global nonprofit with the mission, God's Word Every Child, and I'm the global kids ministry ambassador. So getting to work with churches all around the world and really focus in that Kidmin space. So that's what I'm doing now.
KIDMIN U Team (01:47)
love it. Okay, OneHope is one of those organizations that's doing a lot of really special things. ⁓ Not just locally in the States, but all across the world. Obviously, you're based in Australia, and they have a big presence there as well. But for people who haven't heard about OneHope and what they do, how would you describe their mission and the sort of things that they're involved in?
Andy (02:09)
Yeah, great question. think OneHope for many years has been ⁓ behind a lot of things or involved in a lot of things. they go, I'm not so sure I've heard of OneHope. And you go, you get the Bible app for kids. And they go, yeah. And you go, okay, that's OneHope. know, kids Bible experience on Uversion. They're like, ⁓ yeah. And then just involved in so many other ministries. And so OneHope is a global ministry focused helping children and young people. So even teens engaging
KIDMIN U Team (02:23)
Yeah.
Andy (02:39)
God's Word, as I said before, God's Word Every Child is really our mission. they combine research and partnerships and scripture-based resources to equip churches and families. And so over the last 40 years, one hopes existed for, they've reached 2 billion children with the Word of God, which is just amazing. Historically started through print material. And so the first,
book of hope that was printed actually went to El Salvador and ⁓ it was distributed by the local church. And I think it's always important to talk about the origins because still that is our posture today. One hope, we are not the experts. We work with all the church around the world. So it's built by the church for the church. If we can find something that local churches are doing. I mean, kids Bible experience on new version is a perfect example of that. It's built by the church, kids pastors and leaders all around the world, creating fun, engaging.
⁓ little clips that go onto YouVersion each day for kids aged 7 to 11 to engage with the Scripture. ⁓ It's built by the Church but it's for the Church. So we can help curate, we can help ⁓ bring that together ⁓ and then research is another huge part of what OneHope does. So that's a little bit about what OneHope does.
KIDMIN U Team (04:00)
One of the things I love about how they operate is partnerships are a big deal in what they do and a lot of the things that end up getting put out there, it's not just the OneHope team putting everything out, but of course they do a lot of amazing things. Instead, they leverage partnerships, people who are already making great content and lots of churches who are doing amazing ministry and saying, hey, how can we work together to create something really special and ultimately to resource families and to resource the local church.
I love the fact that you guys do that. think it makes the final product even better because you're leveraging people who are specialists and amazing at what they do. And some of my favorite resources that I've used over the years, didn't realize this at the time, but many of them were one hope things. Like the Bible app for kids is one of my favorite tools ever. In fact, even the curriculum is one that I've used for lots of years. I think it's great. And the fact that all of that stuff is available for free.
Andy (04:47)
Right.
Yeah.
KIDMIN U Team (04:59)
is incredible. I mean, there's certainly a spirit of generosity in everything that you do. I'm curious, for all the things that you're involved in now, all the ministries that you do, if we were to go all the way back to the very beginning, how'd you get started in ministry? What was the beginning like?
Andy (05:15)
Wow, yeah, incredible, you know, the story it would.
It's certainly not an angel turned up and did some sort of Irish River dance and, you know, called me into ministry. You know, here we go. And it was, it was very simple. A simple logical response. I didn't become a Christian until I was 14. Did not grow up with church context at all. It was just before my 15th birthday. And my best friend at school led me to the Lord and
KIDMIN U Team (05:26)
You
Andy (05:49)
It was a pretty rough and even just, you know, little asterisks or, you know, ⁓ warning the story gets better. I'll always put the warning out there, but it was a little it comes from a little bit of some tragedy. But what happened was over 15 to from the age of 15 to ⁓ to 19. I actually left school, which is ⁓ hilarious now on a couple of months away from finishing my masters. But I'm I'm actually high school dropout, like dropped out of school, went into
I went in, did carpentry first as a trade. Then in my early 20s, I went and then went back and studied. And as I started to get into ministry, so a bit of later story, but I left school literally to get away from my unsaved friends who were rough. I mean, I didn't, I live on the Gold Coast in Australia. Sure, it's a bit of a party.
It's seen, it's where everyone comes in around Australia for holiday destination. And there's a bit of a party scene in what it was. But I mean, I was just in the suburbs in a typical school, but there was just a real, a whole high uptake of kids, know, doing drugs and drinking and partying and all the rest. And so over those next few years, after I became a Christian, I had a friend who tragically passed away who overdosed on drugs.
another one drunk, crashed a car and killed one of her other friends. And then the third one is still an unsolved murder today on the Gold Coast. And I'm at his funeral age 18. And there I was, I was a carpenter, I'm 18, I'm looking around at my friends from school, just feeling completely helpless to help my friends. And I just made this decision, I'm gonna go help kids not end up messed up like my friends.
And I was in this little tiny church. And when I say tiny, I mean it. was probably, so my friend led me to the Lord and said, well, we need to go to a church. So we'll go back to my childhood pastors like church. And it was, we went there and there was the average age was 80. Like I promise you, like the senior has an 80 and it was just all these, and it was this little tiny church in the, in the, in the suburbs. And I started this kids club on a Friday afternoon after school.
KIDMIN U Team (08:08)
Wow.
Andy (08:18)
school, hey, listen. ⁓ And so I started having Friday off work, working as a carpenter, I just I'd work four days a week. And then I would have Friday off and I'd go into my local primary school and volunteer my time and just help out. And then we'd get these kids and within a year, we were seeing about 150 community kids coming out every Friday afternoon or Friday night to this community kids club. And that's where kids ministry started for me. I knew nothing. And we're just
KIDMIN U Team (08:47)
Wow.
Andy (08:48)
teaching the gospel and playing games and started to learn, a little bit more and whatever it was.
So we were in there for a number of years and maybe two or three years. And by then my senior pastor had become old, remembering he started at 80. And so we had this children and youth ministry of probably about 150, 200 kids that I didn't know what it was, you know, at the time of like, okay, this is sort of something. And my senior pastor went into a nursing home.
age care and so ⁓
We took the kids to another local AG church, so the Australian Christian Church is in Australia, ACC Church. And I just sort of said, hey, can we come here with all these kids? Well, you remember, imagine a senior pastor all of a sudden. And they already had a big children's ministry and a big youth ministry. And we combined and then ended up being on staff there, children's and youth ministry and overseeing the children youth ministry there. And that's sort of how it started.
on we go from there is another 22 years in full-time industry now and so ⁓ yeah whatever that was so anywhere around 20 years later here we are with a whole lot of bunch of other great and not so great stories.
KIDMIN U Team (10:09)
Hmm.
Well, I've heard a lot of origin stories. I'm fascinated hearing how kids pastors specifically got their start because ⁓ Yeah, I feel like there are other roles in the church where there's maybe a more ⁓ Consistent path that people take to get there But when it comes to kids ministry, it is a long windy thing people come from all different ⁓ Spots and your story is certainly unique that is special to see what the Lord did there You know one of the things I love about
Andy (10:34)
Yeah.
100%.
Yeah.
KIDMIN U Team (10:47)
your ministry and One Hope and all that. You guys do a lot of research on the next generation and figuring out, hey, how are they seeing the world? How are they interacting with things? What do they really need from us? What trends have you noticed lately? What are some takeaways maybe for the average kids pastor to start paying attention to for this next generation that's starting to come to our churches?
Andy (10:52)
Mm.
Yeah, that's a great question. for me, I've always, you know, despite leaving school early, I've always always wanted to wanted to learn. It's why I went back and studied. And it's why I'm now we're back again to do my masters and always just just wanting to learn. And it's really why why it resonated with me, because it wasn't
Just you know, well, we've got this concept it is it is based out of research. It is, you know research informed ⁓ outcome based so it's not just like, you know, we saw thousands of people it's like okay, but you know the is a real life change happening in the outcome and so this mix between research which we say is prophetic, know research is showing us the where we're at and you know, Jen alpha who's coming through and helping us respond and build things now like you said
for
that next generation coming through. I would say over the last ⁓ maybe five years, some two different research and I can give the links for people to be able to access this again, as you said, it's all free. But we did ⁓ some research called Global Youth Culture, GYC, and it was the tail end of Gen Z. ⁓ And we researched and just had a look at five different areas. It was faith ⁓ and so it was, yeah, exploring
their faith, was family, ⁓ it was ⁓ technology, was ⁓ sex and gender and these areas as we sort of really dug into it.
showed and I'm sort of hesitating not that I'm, we've done GYC and we've done Gen Alpha. So Gen Alpha was done last year for a number of countries. And so what I'm getting at is this, I've got so many different stats in my head. And so if I quote something and then you get the research, whoever's watching this and listening and you go, hold on a minute, that stat was off. Sure, I probably quoted Brazil. I don't know. But let's just, at large, what I do know
KIDMIN U Team (13:02)
Ha
Andy (13:16)
is ⁓ it's in the 43 % I think it was ⁓ of Gen Z ⁓ identified as Christian and ⁓ if you put six sort of marker points around this which is ⁓ four beliefs statements you know believe in faith through Christ alone the Bible's a word of God just four beliefs but there's two actions read the Bible once a week and pray once a week independently and it reduces it from ⁓ from 43 %
you
know down to about 13 percent. ⁓ I think that's US. In Australia 32 percent identifies Christian. It goes down to 3 percent and ⁓ that's a radical shift. This is a 29 percent what we what we call nominal Christian ⁓ and 3 percent of committed Christian. Gen Alpha ⁓ we have done that and it starts ⁓ slightly higher. So in Australia it does start a little bit higher than the 32.
in the forties and it comes down to 13%. There's still this dramatic drop and globally we see that in all the research ⁓ in all the countries. In fact, I just presented the Gen-L for research in Singapore and same thing specific to Singapore. There's just that drop and this is nominal Christian space. ⁓ And so I think that...
in different parts of the world, Brazil has a very Catholic influence, ⁓ North America has a very professing Christian ⁓ baseline, but then it still does drop dramatically down. ⁓ So Australia is a little bit of ⁓ a mix. Its church scene would be very similar to North America, but its ⁓ society is probably a little bit more like you would imagine in the UK or post-Christian ⁓ sort of society.
And so when we look at these trends, there's a whole lot of that, you know, we're looking at right now where they're being shaped by a digital, emotionally complex world, ⁓ meaning many formation is already happening and it's not necessarily happening in the biblical direction as a society naturally was doing. So we have to be intentional as the church around this biblical discipleship.
It's not just because there's one hope and this is the answer that it's about scripture engagement. It is the answer. This is why one hope is passionate about this. In both research papers, when you see the scripture engagement take place, you see the reduction in emotional and mental health. You see the reduction in confusion in so many different areas in life. And you see so many areas of where
that happens, but here's the thing on both papers ⁓ and a lot of other research, know Barna, McCrindle, some other research also points to this. Right now, the biggest trend ⁓ gap is between the responsibility and confidence within parents. And every parent knows that they are responsible for faith formation. The churches, when you ask them who's primarily responsible for faith formation, they'll point to the parents.
KIDMIN U Team (16:28)
Hmm.
Andy (16:39)
But the church less than 10 % of churches worldwide create resources or help parents with that And so it's this coming alongside this walking alongside them ⁓ that doesn't exist in a smaller research that one hope did between Gen Z and Gen Alpha so global youth culture and Gen Alpha there was one called family matters and we researched and we surveyed the parents and less than ⁓
right on about a third of parents feel confident in their parenting. think it's 30, 32, 33 % feel confident in their parenting. which, that's hard. It's like, okay, we've got all these parents right now who know it's their responsibility. And that's why I say the gap between responsibility of the parent, but then confidence in order to really pass on forming faith with their children. And so I think that's probably
KIDMIN U Team (17:15)
Mm.
Andy (17:38)
what
the research is showing at the moment. I churches have become, I wouldn't say we're perfect or we're good at it, but we're certainly from when I started 20 something years ago. Our Sunday programs are great. Their Sunday programs are engaging. You know, we've really dialed into that. think there's incredible ministries, curriculums, resources, all the rest, children's pastors, children's ministry just being valued, budgets being associated, you know, to the value that has been added. That's grown over my 20 years, that's for sure. ⁓ But we're at this point where
okay we can do all we can here on a Sunday but at the end of the day it's that parent in the home and so my real attention point is it's not to back off and not do Sundays well I say do Sundays well but we also have to empower and help and come alongside parents in the home for that faith formation so yeah that's probably the biggest thing we're seeing in research right now
KIDMIN U Team (18:37)
Wow. Some of those numbers are quite alarming. You know, I think even, um, even if we were to try and be optimistic on the good part where, know, in one area, might be 30 % or 40 % who are professing Christian. Um, even that is a failing grade, you know, like even, even that, um, is lower than we want. But then when we factor in how many people are meeting, frankly, a really low bar, a low threshold.
Andy (18:40)
Yeah.
KIDMIN U Team (19:03)
for being an active believer. know, just reading the Bible once a week, praying once a week. That is not hard to reach that level. And yet it's alarming how low that is. Based on the research, there are so many directions we can go. Maybe I'll just give you a broad question here. How do we bridge that gap? How do we, you know, you can't go from 43 % down to 12%, whatever it was in North America. How do we bridge that?
Andy (19:06)
Yes.
It's not.
Yeah.
KIDMIN U Team (19:30)
as a local church, as ministry leaders, what should we be thinking about?
Andy (19:36)
That's a great question ⁓ because I think that where our mind leads itself to often is...
And I'm all for evangelism. My friend is, shared in the story, led the 14 year old to the Lord in high school. know, that is great. We do. And in fact, it's this one I can't, you're gonna have to download the report whoever's watching this, it's an overwhelmingly, it could be eight or, know, 80 % or four out of five or whatever the stat was. Young people would come to church if their friend invited them. So I'm not saying don't evangelize.
when I say this next statement. But that percentage of nominal Christians, I think that for me jumps out in every report that I think that is such a great area of evangelism. So the nominal Christians, they may profess they're Christian, but they're not believing the right thing or they're not attributing the right ⁓ actions that is
indicating a committed Christian.
⁓ What I'd say is that nominal space is a huge evangelism opportunity for us because they're connected to our churches. They're warm. They're at least saying they're Christian. But what we can do right there is if we can increase Bible engagement and increase prayer, just those two things. Okay, so how can we do that? Let's do that in our churches. Let's teach that better. But let's equip the parents a whole lot better in this space. And I think probably part of the reason
KIDMIN U Team (20:57)
Hmm.
Andy (21:18)
that gap is there for both the child but probably for the parents as well is ⁓
you can only be discipled by a disciple, know, disciples' disciple. And I think for a parent, unless they're being discipled, unless they're actually leaning into the faith formation in their own right, that's probably what the limitation is, is why they're probably not feeling confident. And so it's sort of a deeper, stupid problem here that we can be
KIDMIN U Team (21:31)
Hmm.
Andy (21:55)
Yavadah
even as a church come alongside a parent to resource them to disciple their children in the home.
But in turn, I'll put it through the lens that I'm hoping to disciple the parent just to be one step in front, at worst, be one step in front of their child. Just help them understand scripture more, help them understand the importance of scripture engagement, help them understand the power of prayer, and then infuse that into everyday natural rhythms. I've got three boys. My eldest is in his final year of school. ⁓
He's just about to turn 18 here, a 15 year old and an 11 year old. So three boys, they're all playing sport. My eldest has his license, like praise the Lord, like he at least can drive and help the other boys now.
KIDMIN U Team (22:43)
you
Andy (22:46)
I feel like an Uber driver some days, you know, I'm driving to sport practice and here and this and and then I just yeah, just not getting tips or five stars, but I'm getting sent here and then going there and and then then I'm They got homework and then it's you know It's just a busy life is what I'm saying. And the last thing I need is for the church to give me homework I don't need homework. I need the church to teach me how to embed healthy habits and rhythms in the home
And I think of the scripture that is so quoted within children's ministry, but it's train up a child on the way they should go and When they're they won't depart well We like the end because we don't want our children to depart from the faith depart from God's ways But if we go back to how we get there it's train up and we often think train up through our You know Western world of train them instruct tell them so if we just tell them enough if we just teach them enough if we just do and
And I've said this word and then a good friend of mine who studied Hebrew says that I say the word completely wrong. But I can spell it at least. But the Hebrew word for train is kornak. It's K-A-H-N-A. ⁓
WK or something like that off the top of my head, it's Kornak and anyone who's watching and you know, Hebrew major is probably gonna go, he just absolutely mints that. I know I do, it's fine, but I do know the definition. It basically means to dedicate or consecrate. And so the whole concept is rather than teaching of instruction, it's to dedicate or consecrate the child back to the God that created them. And in order to un-
earth the the original
creation or design inside a child and the greatest thing we can do is call out of the child who they already are who they were Created before the foundations of the earth, you know in God's eyes and and bring them into that reality and and the way we do that is by ⁓ Allowing God to be in the center of all that we do. This is this is what we're this is this is faith formation It's what we're trying to do. So rather than just instruction it's bringing
in God into the everyday habits and rhythms of what we do. And so for me, we have to train that in, you know, it's in every area when we're forming things, you have to train that in a very sort of regimented way, maybe. But it would be like, okay, we will pray every night when we drop every night when they go to bed, we'll pray every day when we drive to school. And ⁓ even if my eldest now drives the boys to school, they tell me because I asked them,
but they still pray together every day because that habit is formed. And so we've done it since they're very young. So we'd pray on the way to school. Now we only live maybe two miles away from the school. So we are not interceding for the nations like it is. If the lights change fast, it's a quick amen prayer. But what we do is we will declare the day, we've invited God into the midst of our day and we've learned that habit. And I think, ⁓
KIDMIN U Team (25:39)
Hmm.
You
Andy (26:06)
What it does for me is it reinforces for me as a parent, for me first needing to be discipled.
hey I need to rely on God. So in the midst of work or the midst of whatever we teach our kids you know throughout you know exams or whatever it would be or hard moments but you can lean on God and and so it's integrating it into everyday life ⁓ every night for many years in ministry if we had people over or if we had ⁓ you know small groups or whatever it might be ⁓ we would excuse ourselves and go pray with our kids before they would go to sleep and go to bed at night because that
was important, it was part of a rhythm. It wasn't just part of a religious process, it was part of forming their faith to where, ⁓ you know, the start of their day, at the end of the day, we're giving, and it would take different shapes. In the morning, we were declarative over the day, but at night it was thankfulness. Hey, let's finish our day just giving thanks to God. And so I think that the shifts that we need to make, you know, really in a church is not to just be thinking Sunday, and then if parents or
KIDMIN U Team (27:02)
Hmm.
Andy (27:14)
families missed the Sunday, make sure we catch them up with the content they missed. No, it's almost and it's double the work. I'm sorry to the kids pastors, you know, listening it's gosh, now we're gonna do two. Do great Sundays, but you need to find something. And this is where I love one, and there are great resources that are out there that are curated, but find something, whether it's kids Bible experience or, know, whether it's anything else, a U version plan or, but find something that you can engage around scripture.
and build the habits and church leaders help the parents learn how to build the habits rather than just give them more tasks to do. So that's sort of my thoughts.
KIDMIN U Team (27:56)
Yeah,
I love that when asked what the solution is, your mind went straight to family and parents. I really believe ⁓ that is an undervalued thing. I think we all say that it is important and we all believe that parents are the primary spiritual champions in their home. But I think if we're being honest about where we put our attention, where we put our resources, it doesn't always demonstrate that. To your point, we invest heavily into a Sunday experience and
Andy (28:03)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
KIDMIN U Team (28:26)
And listen, Sunday experiences, I think across our country and I imagine globally are probably as good as they've ever been. They're probably as sharp as they've ever been. And the content is probably as good as it's ever been. ⁓ and yet we need more than just Sundays. You know, when I think about some of the challenges we're facing right now, maybe why there's a gap, I think about two things. One is what happens during the week and at home. The other thing is what actually does happen on a Sunday. And I think at least here domestically in the States.
Andy (28:32)
Yeah. Yep.
KIDMIN U Team (28:56)
One thing I feel like I've been noticing is that kids ministry is almost like lagged behind church culture a little bit and that there was an era of let's call it a tractional church where you we just had everything dialed we had lights we had decor everything was just polished which you know there are good parts of that and I think as the church has been shifting a little bit away from that kids ministry maybe is still stuck in that tractional thing if you were to
peek under the hood and see in our kids ministries, we still have very scripted experiences, very polished, like all the same values of Attractional Church. And I wonder if we're afraid to create a deeper experience for kids, if we're afraid to abandon, you know, the maybe the comfort of an excellent experience, and actually just be present for kids and ask questions and be willing to go deep and
Maybe to step into the messy parts of ministry, because I think if you're really going to disciple people, you can't just follow a handbook. know, discipleship is a one-on-one thing and it's different for every kid and every leader. ⁓ What does it look like on Sundays? I love everything you shared about the home. I think that should be our starting point, but we still do have Sundays and I think we have a long way to go to increase Bible engagement and boost discipleship. What would it look like for kids ministry leaders who are listening to this?
Andy (29:58)
for sure.
you
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
KIDMIN U Team (30:21)
to maybe shift our posture for how we program to actually ⁓ focus on those things a bit more.
Andy (30:29)
Yeah, I love everything you said then and I think that...
that what you're saying is 100 % correct. And the reason I believe on my thoughts are because the people who are delivering the content are probably designing it to how they engaged, whether first or how they think they should engage. So the attraction or model was, for me, I'm going in and it's like, man, lights, LED screens, holy, like this is, when these starts getting
integrated in, it's like, this is unbelievable. ⁓ Gen Alpha don't care about that. And I think that we need to design our Sundays to the audience, not to our preference. And I think that we're still stuck in our preference or our way of, were so, kids pass us and this is me, is that I'm building this program as we grew out. At a couple of different conferences, I have done a particular
of session called the evolution of children's ministry and actually just sort of track that through from your seventies and you know your Sunday school and and and you move all the way through and I remember the first time digital ⁓ curriculum in Australia came out it was on DVDs and then I have to take time to explain what these round silver things were to half the audience at kids conferences you know because the the leaders today are like do you what what are they and I'm not know these round things and and Kidmo was the curriculum it was absolutely
innovative
and that's what we had the first time ever this digital curriculum and then you're right we dialed in on how to do it and so my pursuit of excellent services and excellent you're taking me out of what you know then Sunday Attractional Services everything you said are 100 % correct what I wasn't doing was actually and again I'll bring it back to the research I wasn't
becoming aware of the actual audience that I'm ministering to. So right now for kids, pastors and leaders, ⁓ I say, yes, we need great services, but Gen Alpha, they don't learn in rows, they learn in circles. They wanna be collaborative, they wanna be part of the journey, part of the story. Now I'm not saying don't do things on screen. I would say that for a lot of churches,
that are leaning into a different model or a different way, it would be okay, we're doing...
corporate praise and worship, big group, when it comes to, but they're all sitting in their small groups. And so let's just, you know, use the elementary as a, I know that's not the entirety of children's ministry, but just to make it easier, but it's there. is big group. They're sitting in this small group. so worship happens and then you turn them back. Okay. Now let's go into prayer and straight into prayer with a small group. And you're taking it from, um, just being a, you know, participant in watching, um, but to being someone here who gets to participate in.
take part hands on tangible. And so I'm not just a spectator. It is now ⁓ I'm doing this. So then you pray and then you sit down. We go back to the lesson and we watch some lesson and then maybe someone teaches or it's digital or it's online, whatever your model happens to be, but then straight back to discussion and let's wrestle through this. And I know that we've always had those elements where it would be, we do this and then we do that, but probably a more integrated approach ⁓ of where we're kind
coming
back to ⁓ Gen Alpha being included in every aspect of this. I think that's a ⁓ big shift. so to really frame it is that Gen Alpha don't learn in rows, they learn in circles. And if anyone listening can be thinking through that, how can I be constantly making that circle? How can I constantly be bringing them into a moment of discussion, collaboration?
have a voice, they want agency, they want to wrestle, they're asking deep questions. Gen Alpha are definitely spiritually curious more than any other generation. And I'll say spiritually curious because it may not be lending itself towards Christianity, is spiritually curious and this is why the top movies in the last five years have been that very, you know, your Marvel,
or that real ⁓ spiritual undertones or whatever it might be, mystical. it's just that, okay, I could be or whatever it would be, but it's this spiritual aspect. And what it really is doing is awakening this ⁓ internal spiritual ⁓ questions that the kids have of where did I, what are my origins? Where did I come from? And what are my superpowers or whatever that might be.
identity, who am I, what am I? And so the world is giving answers to this, but we as a church know that the answer is the Word of God and a real relationship with Christ. But how we present that can't just be, I'm going to tell you and back to the scripture instruct you, it's going to be, I'm going to bring you into this discussion, we're invited into this relationship. so that would be the shape of how I would look for Sundays.
KIDMIN U Team (35:41)
Hmm.
Andy (36:08)
The other part of that also would come back to parents again, rather than it just being, okay, at church we're responsible, at home you're responsible parents. What about at church parents are still responsible in modeling faith? And if I talk about volunteers, kids, pastors and leaders are all trying to recruit volunteers. ⁓
The invitation just needs to shift slightly rather than, will you come and serve on kids? Will you come and model discipleship to your children? Will you come alongside? you? And as kids pastors, are we okay if children aren't in our curated program the whole Sunday? What if they started out in the car park or in the lobby or on the door serving with their parent first? And all of a sudden,
KIDMIN U Team (36:44)
Hmm.
Andy (37:04)
as a kids pastor start to think this way, you're going to be the best friend with every other department because you're going to build their volunteer teams. And so at a church, I started to build out volunteer teams, ⁓ car park door, host teams, where parents could take their child and model discipleship, models serving in the house of God once a month with their child. Here's what was happening. The children are turning up late into the kids program because they were doing some of that service.
this front end. Now how late? I don't know 10 or 15 minutes because you know what we're doing is a lot of that front end car park host some of those elements you know welcome team on the door and so
when then that would come into the program. And ⁓ I had to be okay with that. I had to alter my program, but what it was doing was infusing a love for the house, a serving attitude. And that's gonna be better than me telling a sermon about it. And so just, I would say for kids, pastors and listeners listening to this, look at ways of ⁓ integrating faith formation in church as much as at home. It's parents serving with the children, both in
in kids service and outside. So that integration of parents and then I would say it's really our teaching model of circles not rows.
KIDMIN U Team (38:32)
Yeah, no, that's really good. And I love how you're talking about blending all of it together. I think when most of us think about how we resource parents, we think about what happens at home, what happens during the week, but that actually can be part of what we do on Sunday. So I love that. And there's been multiple different research outlets who've talked about this before about what are the most important things you can do for your kids that are actually going to dictate them developing a faith of their own.
Andy (38:48)
Yeah.
KIDMIN U Team (39:00)
And it's almost unanimous. Whoever asked this, whenever it's done, however it's asked, the results are clear. When you show your kids what it looks like to live out your faith and specifically when you serve together, it's one of the most powerful things you can do. And I would argue that, you know, if we were to incorporate a model like that, where we have some roles where moms and dads could serve with their kids for the first 15, 20 minutes of church, I could argue that is the most valuable time they're actually going to have.
Andy (39:00)
Yeah.
Yes.
KIDMIN U Team (39:29)
spiritually speaking at church. Like yes, I don't want to downplay the importance of what we do, but if we truly believe that parents are primary, then we've got to accept that that is a very valuable window. And sometimes that requires relinquishing a bit of control, right? Like I think that to me, listening to a lot of what you're saying, that felt like an undertone there because I've told volunteers for years, like here's your leader guide. Here's what I want you to do for this experience, but just know
This is a starting point. And I'm okay if you decide to shift gears or spend a little bit more time in an activity, if you feel like that's where the Holy Spirit is leading. Like this guide is a starting point. It's not meant to hold you back. The goal is not to do every single activity in the guide. The goal is to help your kids see who Jesus is. So if you see an opportunity for that, go for it. Same way with the parents. I think what could be unlocked if we were willing to just be humble enough to say, what do kids really need? You know?
Andy (40:07)
Yeah, yeah.
Totally.
KIDMIN U Team (40:27)
Like what can we do to help them? You know, I wonder, we're coming up on time here. I just have one question for you as we wrap up and shifting gears a tad, but my curiosity is just raging and I've got to know the answer. I heard you say at the beginning of the podcast, research is prophetic. What'd you mean by that?
Andy (40:27)
Yep. Yep.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Research prophetic is in the sense that when we get research, ⁓ say Gen Alpha.
It is prophetic because it's showing us who we're ministering to and the trends of where this is going. So for me right now, you know, it's prophetic to understand the three, four year old, Jen Alpha and the trends that exist there. And it's showing us and pointing us to what the church should be forming to help this. So we start to, to, to study, you know, 11, 12, 13 year old Jen Alphas.
And I'll continue to answer the question. I actually think we're gonna need to do secondary gen alpha research. Gen alpha is gonna be broken into two ⁓ because you've got ⁓ COVID ⁓ affected gen alphas ⁓ of how that radically shifted parenting and radically shifted ⁓ children's experiences. Definitely in Australia, ⁓ and I know around...
but I just think there's two parts of Jennifer. It's not as clear cut as here's Gen Z, here's Gen Alpha. But what I mean by that is I can start to already see the trends or the shifts and the changes culturally. I think research into the parents, knowing the millennial parents and how their mindset was shifted and what formed and shaped their faith and what are the things that turn them off church and why are they swinging back to faith or not? I think all of these answers
lays within some of this research which is prophetic to us as a church to know how to respond. A prophetic word is there to illuminate, to show us, to help us bring people closer to Christ. And so if whatever this research can do, it's helping and aiming us and showing us to bring people closer to Christ. so research will inform. I'm not saying research is the gospel. I'm saying research should show us how to bring people
to the gospel and ⁓ it certainly shapes and changes mine because I as I said before think that often we will respond to our preferences or we will build things out of the what shaped us and so because this shaped what I was doing that's now what I'm going to shape and think this is what's going to work. ⁓ The lights, the loud music, the LED screens was such a wow for me here well I need to integrate that into our ministry to reach it.
next generation. No, you probably just need to sit down in a circle and have a meaningful conversation and let these gen alpha minds ask a question and that you won't know the answer for and then you take off the mask of perfection and be authentic and go, I've got no idea. I've actually got no idea. Hey, why don't we go on that journey together? And that is what you never want now. Well, I would have never have done that or known that if I had not read research to understand the minds and the
and the habits and the patterns of the generation I'm ministering to. So I think that's what I mean by that, that research is prophetic.
KIDMIN U Team (43:56)
Yeah.
Yeah,
again, it all comes back to humility, right? It's not about what's comfortable for us. It's about what they need from us and our willingness to to meet them where they're at. Well, Andy, thank you so much for this conversation. There's so much more that, ⁓ man, I wish we could have got into. Hopefully we can have you back at some point. But I appreciate you taking the time to be on our podcast. If anybody wants to get connected with you or see what you're up to these days, where would you point them?
Andy (44:16)
For sure, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, look, a great place to land is, you know, ⁓
Social media is always good, but I'm pretty terrible with that, you know To be honest. I have a love hate the social media it is like And I don't know if that's just the year we were at the moment But what you can do is you can connect in with a Kidman collective is something that we are doing through one hope at the moment it's coaching and training and equipping kids pastors and leaders and It's it's not me. It's a whole lot of bunch of my friends that are a lot smarter than me And so I'll invite and always tell them whenever I'm telling people hey
You want to connect in cool. It's a package deal. There's a whole lot of great kids passes and I will say to the kids pass and live is watching this ⁓ I think it's brilliant. They're listening watching to this podcast and learning Thank you for putting this on and taking time, you know to really create this for kids passes and leaders in the community I think it's it's it's amazing ⁓ Keep learning but also reach out to connect with people. ⁓ I think the kid mean community and you spoke about human
community is humble and I think there's a lot of kids passes and leaders out there ⁓ but we sometimes sit in our isolation and so yeah, Kidbeing Collective, Kidbeing New, all of this exists for resources but mainly only to really meddle and get to hear your heart but I know it exists for community and that community of connecting and whether community of just listening or community of reaching out and engagement ⁓ I think that's really important so whether it's
whether it's Kim and you, whether it's others, whether I can help put people who are listening in contact with others. ⁓ You know, I just think be bold and reach out and connect to some kids' passes.
KIDMIN U Team (46:10)
I agree and one thing I've learned about ministry leaders. They're way more approachable than you think You know, I don't think even even the people who speak on stage at conferences and all that you'd be surprised man I think there's a heart within our community to help each other and to be a resource and so I second everything you're saying Andy Thank you for coming on. I appreciate you taking the time has been such a fun conversation and for everybody who's tuning in Thank you for being here. We'll see you next time.
